Third person joining results in loss of audio for said THIRD PERSON about jitsi-meet

[scoreym]

It doesn't seem to matter which browser type or version. Also haven't tested with any of the users using a non-browser client.

[tonewarper]

Do you observe a pattern in the type of the 3rd device? Same browser perhaps?

Concur with @scoreym ; the issue remained with the 3rd participant when we tested with their different Chrome versions on different Windows laptops, and even via official Jitsi mobile app. We changed the roles so that I would be the 3rd participant not among the 1st two, and it happened to me, using Chrome on Mac. Making us suspect the culprit is somewhere in the server/code itself, or a wider compatibility/security issue with a broad range of devices/browsers/environments.

[scoreym]

We've been running into the same issue recently. I don't really have much to add other than that we are encountering the some behavior when three people connect. Only two are able to hear each other and the third is muted and unable to unmute.

[saghul]

Do you observe a pattern in the type of the 3rd device? Same browser perhaps?

[kazin-kharizma]

Can confirm that this happens on self hosted installs we operate, ones that our partner agencies operate and several times on the main Jitsi instance. Cloudron has discontinued offering Jitsi in its app repository as a result and I hear Linode and Digital Ocean will be as well.

The crazy part is that even though this and the video quality dropping for the Jitsi Video Bridge being some of the most top listed issues, Jitsi always gives the same unhelpful vague response putting the fault on the user despite their guides not being effective at troubleshooting the issue. This all started because of changes to the software, so help users make the fixes needed or admit you’re working on it.

[saghul]

Cloudron has discontinued offering Jitsi in its app repository as a result and I hear Linode and Digital Ocean will be as well.

Where have you heard this?

[saghul]

The crazy part is that even though this and the video quality dropping for the Jitsi Video Bridge being some of the most top listed issues, Jitsi always gives the same unhelpful vague response putting the fault on the user despite their guides not being effective at troubleshooting the issue. This all started because of changes to the software, so help users make the fixes needed or admit you’re working on it.

We wouldn't introduce bugs just because, why would we do that?

If this isn't fixed is because we cannot reproduce it, nor we do have logs (yet). We use our very own software every single day and so far got no reports of this, so it's hard to track down, that's all.

[kazin-kharizma]

Cloudron has discontinued offering Jitsi in its app repository as a result and I hear Linode and Digital Ocean will be as well.

Where have you heard this?

I’m in the Cloudron repo daily and worked with them to find an alternative solution when the Jitsi package they had was no longer meeting their security and quality controls. In the same topic on the Cloudron forums discussing Jitsi, we wondered why Jitsi remains a viable alternative for other providers, only to have someone chime in and say that Linode’s had issues as well and that new offerings are coming. As for Digital Ocean, I had a Droplet there and spoke to their software team after countless issues and was told, “we aren’t going to wait much longer for the matter to be addressed before looking elsewhere. The Disroot team is also looking at fixes.

I have posted several issues that were ignored here form various accounts, personal, developer, corporate. It’s always the same thing, pass the buck. I’m not saying Jitsi deliberately did anything, I’m merely saying that they are not concerned with user experience to those who self host the app.

[kazin-kharizma]

The crazy part is that even though this and the video quality dropping for the Jitsi Video Bridge being some of the most top listed issues, Jitsi always gives the same unhelpful vague response putting the fault on the user despite their guides not being effective at troubleshooting the issue. This all started because of changes to the software, so help users make the fixes needed or admit you’re working on it.

We wouldn't introduce bugs just because, why would we do that?

If this isn't fixed is because we cannot reproduce it, nor we do have logs (yet). We use our very own software every single day and so far got no reports of this, so it's hard to track down, that's all.

If you want logs, I can assure you, I’ve sent logs. Logs are there and I have tons of the sound issue, the JVB issue and more. The last JVB issue answer was basically, “oh colibre2 changed stuff and we can’t fix it” and so based on what you say here, I ask you this, if it works internally and externally well for you guys, why aren’t you providing any guidance to your self hosted customers to correct their instances? I shouldn’t have to create a work order for a network analyst to discover things based on deciphering the most obscure and cryptic advice.

I’m not angry but I’m annoyed that I produced perfect GitHub issue reports that made me look like an idiot and that my issues remain the top searched issues for this. Alas, I’ve moved to another provider and so it’s all kinda moot now but I do miss the stability of Jitsi. Now it can’t even stay up for more than 10 minutes.

[saghul]

Thanks for elaborating, please see below.

I’m in the Cloudron repo daily and worked with them to find an alternative solution when the Jitsi package they had was no longer meeting their security and quality controls.

Has anyone from their end gotten in touch with us about that? I personally scout a number of repos several times a day, and others do the same, but we could've missed something.

In the same topic on the Cloudron forums discussing Jitsi, we wondered why Jitsi remains a viable alternative for other providers, only to have someone chime in and say that Linode’s had issues as well and that new offerings are coming. As for Digital Ocean, I had a Droplet there and spoke to their software team after countless issues and was told, “we aren’t going to wait much longer for the matter to be addressed before looking elsewhere. The Disroot team is also looking at fixes.

I don't know how they install / configure Jitsi Meet, but taking a quick check I don't see how the DO setup would end up with a valid hostname, since it doesn't ask for one as it's unattended.

Jitsi Meet is composed of a number of moving parts, and having one misfire can cause really weird errors. Not saying the software doesn't have any bugs! We do install the same Debian packages available for the broader community.

I have posted several issues that were ignored here form various accounts, personal, developer, corporate. It’s always the same thing, pass the buck.

Sorry about that. Can you please link them here so we can revisit?

I’m not saying Jitsi deliberately did anything, I’m merely saying that they are not concerned with user experience to those who self host the app.

I understand why you might feel that way, but let me assure you that is not the case.

If you want logs, I can assure you, I’ve sent logs. Logs are there and I have tons of the sound issue, the JVB issue and more. The last JVB issue answer was basically, “oh colibre2 changed stuff and we can’t fix it”

Please do link the issue. I am not familiar with the problem, but since we releasse all components in tandem, a change in colibri2 shouldn't have caused problems. I'd be interested to know more details here.

based on what you say here, I ask you this, if it works internally and externally well for you guys, why aren’t you providing any guidance to your self hosted customers to correct their instances? I shouldn’t have to create a work order for a network analyst to discover things based on deciphering the most obscure and cryptic advice.

I'm not sure we currently have a good understanding of what the problem actually is, so we cannot provide guidance until that is better understood. based on what you say it could be something as simple as a default flipping in our codebase and the config not being updated to match. We try to avoid those, but we've made mistakes.

Now it can’t even stay up for more than 10 minutes.

I don't know what kind of reaction you are looking for here. That is certainly not true.

[kazin-kharizma]

Thanks for elaborating, please see below.

I’m in the Cloudron repo daily and worked with them to find an alternative solution when the Jitsi package they had was no longer meeting their security and quality controls.

Has anyone from their end gotten in touch with us about that? I personally scout a number of repos several times a day, and others do the same, but we could've missed something.

In the same topic on the Cloudron forums discussing Jitsi, we wondered why Jitsi remains a viable alternative for other providers, only to have someone chime in and say that Linode’s had issues as well and that new offerings are coming. As for Digital Ocean, I had a Droplet there and spoke to their software team after countless issues and was told, “we aren’t going to wait much longer for the matter to be addressed before looking elsewhere. The Disroot team is also looking at fixes.

I don't know how they install / configure Jitsi Meet, but taking a quick check I don't see how the DO setup would end up with a valid hostname, since it doesn't ask for one as it's unattended.

Jitsi Meet is composed of a number of moving parts, and having one misfire can cause really weird errors. Not saying the software doesn't have any bugs! We do install the same Debian packages available for the broader community.

I have posted several issues that were ignored here form various accounts, personal, developer, corporate. It’s always the same thing, pass the buck.

Sorry about that. Can you please link them here so we can revisit?

I’m not saying Jitsi deliberately did anything, I’m merely saying that they are not concerned with user experience to those who self host the app.

I understand why you might feel that way, but let me assure you that is not the case.

If you want logs, I can assure you, I’ve sent logs. Logs are there and I have tons of the sound issue, the JVB issue and more. The last JVB issue answer was basically, “oh colibre2 changed stuff and we can’t fix it”

Please do link the issue. I am not familiar with the problem, but since we releasse all components in tandem, a change in colibri2 shouldn't have caused problems. I'd be interested to know more details here.

based on what you say here, I ask you this, if it works internally and externally well for you guys, why aren’t you providing any guidance to your self hosted customers to correct their instances? I shouldn’t have to create a work order for a network analyst to discover things based on deciphering the most obscure and cryptic advice.

I'm not sure we currently have a good understanding of what the problem actually is, so we cannot provide guidance until that is better understood. based on what you say it could be something as simple as a default flipping in our codebase and the config not being updated to match. We try to avoid those, but we've made mistakes.

Now it can’t even stay up for more than 10 minutes.

I don't know what kind of reaction you are looking for here. That is certainly not true.

I am going to get back to you on all the other items that you so painstakingly took the time to answer for me. It is more than I have had in support from you guys in quite some time. Support used to be great. I cannot speak for the Digital Ocean and Linode installs except to say that their current guides worked perfectly before and now they don't work at all.

What I will say is I don't like this:

Now it can’t even stay up for more than 10 minutes.

I don't know what kind of reaction you are looking for here. That is certainly not true.

This is gaslighting a user experience. It is bordering on obfuscation and ever closely to patronising. When I share with you the logs I have (which I will dig up again), you will see that the JVB cannot maintain at all and drops within minutes of it being queued (aka when not P2P). Further to that, the audio issues with iPhone are insane, with the echo. Nevertheless, please do not gaslight your users. I would not have left a beloved software that I told everyone about and had even worked to create our own custom landing page for all those years ago if it worked and I had received the support I was looking for.

As for Cloudron, you may check their forums and search for Jitsi and find the conversation. Jitsi is also no longer in their AppStore.

I thank you for your detailed reply and will send you more details when I have pulled them. Do not gaslight your user's experience. Regardless of what caused it, the experience is real to them and at least in my case, I am not being hyperbolic.

[saghul]

Sorry, my intention was not to gaslight you. I do think you are being hyperbolic and just like do disapprove of my use of language I disapprove of yours.

Let's leave it at that and focus on getting to the bottom of this.

We can't go and look at how all cloud providers do Jitsi Meet deployments, if they want to engage they know where to find us. What we care deeply about is that our users get a good experience when installing Jitsi Meet by themselves, be that via our Debian packages or Docker. If there is a scenario that results in a non-functioning setup or a botched update, we need to fix that.