Consider Godot engine about kotcity

[kotcity]

The main thing I am pointing out is that Kotlin/JavaFX may steer the project away from common game engine communities. Specifically, Godot, Unity, and Unreal all support C++ or C#, but not Java. Any Java code and UI will likely be difficult to integrate into the aforementioned engines.

I absolutely agree. However, I've got a great start and so far am the main contributor. I don't expect a lot of jump-ins on this project. Feel free to start a city-sim in Godot... you can refer to my code for inspiration. A few more good resources: "Sim City 2000: Power, Politics and Planning" by Nick Dargahi and "Urban Dynamics" by Jay Forrester.

If you're skeptical about Kotlin for games, check out some of the LibGDX examples: https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/wiki/Using-libGDX-with-Kotlin I think you'll find it's surprisingly easy to pick up.

[kotcity]

wow I hadn't even seen this... I'm going to examine it but will not be canceling this project 😊

[kotcity]

Thanks for your feedback. One of the design decisions was to use Kotlin/JavaFX which would net not only good support for GPU accelerated graphics on Mac / Windows / Linux but also enable quick prototyping of UI with Gluon's Scene Builder, while using open source for the whole stack. Additionally, Kotlin has been a huge asset to the project with its awesome tooling and null-safety. Regarding JavaFX, I am using or will be using many features that are 1st class supported: embedded browsers, bar/line/graph charts, calendar widgets, etc. For better or for worse a city simulation needs many of these "data visualization" functions to really let the player know what's going on.

However: I consider this the "proving ground" for a decent open source city simulator. A good deal of work is being done in the current project to separate data / simulation from display. It is not inconceivable you could write a "Godot renderer" for the current sim code pretty easily and totally blow away the lousy graphics I have today.

I hope to reach a viable 1.0 (totally playable, workable game, even if scoped to ~SimCity 2000 levels) and then proceed on to a fully 3D 2.0 version, similar in appearance to Cities: Skylines but with the simulator closer to SimCity 4, hopefully able to re-use some of the simulation code or even logic from this version.

I don't consider this initial version the end-all be-all of city-simulation projects but I hope that it is a solid start and we can work together to evolve it to a place where we can have a free, open source, SimCity 4 replacement.

[brylie]

One of the design decisions was to use Kotlin/JavaFX which would net not only good support for GPU accelerated graphics on Mac / Windows / Linux but also enable quick prototyping of UI

Godot has cross-platform (desktop and mobile) 3D graphics, with inbuilt physically-based rendering, global illumination, etc:

Godot also has support for custom UI development (albeit not drag-and-drop widgets):

• Design interfaces with the Control nodes

I hope to reach a viable 1.0 (totally playable, workable game, even if scoped to ~SimCity 2000 levels) and then proceed on to a fully 3D 2.0 version. ... I hope that it is a solid start and we can work together to evolve it to a place where we can have a free, open source, SimCity 4 replacement.

It just seems to me that adopting Godot would more readily support your goals, as it has support for 2D/3D game creation and is designed specifically for game development. In some regards, Godot is to game development what Gluon is to JavaFX UI creation, i.e. a drag-and-drop, point-and-click, fully-featured game engine and integrated development environment.

[kotcity]

I think Godot would be a foregone conclusion if I was doing an FPS or something where 3D is required and UI is simple / secondary. Believe it or not this is closer to a desktop / utility app than a conventional game. At this point 3D is a liability for me -- my main focus is building a rock-solid simulation. I don't want to waste time with 3D models, 3D transforms, shaders, etc. Think of KotCity as a desktop app with a GPU accelerated canvas embedded. Below is a shot of SimCity for Windows. You can see how many "boring" widgets are used vs. the actual game canvas. I will most likely end up with something quite similar.

If I am successful with this project I hope to have learned enough to do a totally new implementation with another more capable engine (Unreal, Godot, other). For now, everything is going smoothly. I have a way to quickly prototype the interface and sim. I aim to get all the mistakes out of the way here :)

By the way, if you'd like to clone the project and use the simulator code and mesh it with Godot I don't think it'd be too tricky -- maybe we could support two "front-ends". I know FreeCiv does something similar.

If you would like to contribute, I'd be glad to have you. I think you'll find even if you aren't familiar with Kotlin it's an easy jump. I've only been a user for a few months and it's quite easy to get started.

[brylie]

At this point 3D is a liability for me -- my main focus is building a rock-solid simulation. I don't want to waste time with 3D models, 3D transforms, shaders, etc

Godot also supports 2D games, and was originally developed primarily for 2D. 👾

Below is a shot of SimCity for Windows. You can see how many "boring" widgets are used vs. the actual game canvas

Godot also supports 'boring' UI widgets. 💤 😴

By the way, if you'd like to clone the project and use the simulator code and mesh it with Godot I don't think it'd be too tricky -- maybe we could support two "front-ends". I know FreeCiv does something similar.

The main thing I am pointing out is that Kotlin/JavaFX may steer the project away from common game engine communities. Specifically, Godot, Unity, and Unreal all support C++ or C#, but not Java. Any Java code and UI will likely be difficult to integrate into the aforementioned engines. 📦 😿

If you would like to contribute, I'd be glad to have you.

I am willing to contribute, but still maintain that aligning with the Godot engine/community is in the better interest of this project 🙂

References

Godot 3 docs:

• 2D
• Button
• Scripting (supports GDScript, VisualScript, C#)

Java compatibility with common game engines:

• How can I use Java in Unreal Engine 4 (you can't)
• Does Unity let you code in Java? (no)

[brylie]

Cool beans. Thanks for the book recommendations too! By the way, there are some really nice game assets for a city simulation game on OpenGameArt.

[kotcity]

Just to keep a clean board I am going to close this issue. Please keep me posted on any tech you think might benefit this project. :)

[brylie]

By the way, the Derbados developer (@thomasleese) is/was building a city building game with Kotlin. Perhaps you two could collaborate?

FWIW, I found out about Derbados while researching open source city builder games to see what is out there :-)

[brylie]

wow I hadn't even seen this... I'm going to examine it but will not be canceling this project

It seems the two projects have different, but perhaps complementary, features.