http://doc.perl6.org/ --> https://docs.raku.org? (Thousands of inbound P6/Raku URLs are currently broken) about problem-solving

[finanalyst]

@raiph I'm getting a better understanding of the issue here. It is not so much a problem with broken links as
a problem of domain names, so links containing 'perl6.org' in the URL are getting lost.

This is I think an issue for the Raku Steering Council, which by force of circumstances has to take on a wider community role.

Since I am now a member of the RSC, I shall bring the issue to their attention. There are probably all sorts of glitches when going from Perl6 to Raku, and it will be interesting to see what they are.

Personally I think the issue of continuance of links is more marketing than money.

When I get some clarity, I'll get back to you. It'll be a couple of weeks at least.

[finanalyst]

@raiph @lizmat The perl6 domain is still under control. The link does appear to be inappropriate and needs changing. It will take some time to enquire whether the domain can be moved to The Perl and Raku Foundation and another redirect installed.
Hopefully, we can get some movement on this now we have identified where things are going wrong.
No need - yet - to change the issue name or location. I think there probably will be some things to do on doc-website as I'm sure there will need to be individual redirects, but we have the infrastructure there to do so.

[finanalyst]

@raiph Since you mentioned docs.raku.org, and I am pretty involved in that project currently, it might be good to tag me on the concerns.
Some things to consider with regards to url redirection

• the site is static with all pages generated, then served by the Caddy webserver
• the pages for docs.raku.org are now generated by tooling that is located at doc-website
• a deprecated-url file is provided to the webserver that maps broken urls to live urls
• so to fix broken links, it is possible
  • to identify the broken incoming url,
  • identify a reasonable live alternative,
  • create a PR to change deprecated-urls

In principle, 404's are logged by the Caddy system, and there should be a way to access the logs (there is an issue about this on doc-website).

[raiph]

Thanks @finanalyst.

to identify the broken incoming url,

http://doc.perl6.org

identify a reasonable live alternative,

https://docs.raku.org

create a PR to change deprecated-urls

That appears to be about file/paths within the user doc site.

I'm only talking about stopping links being redirected to the wrong site.

Here's a typical example: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Slip.

There are several problems with the URL, but if we still own perl6.org then surely all of them could be fixed with a single generic redirect dealing with the pattern:

• http --> https

• doc --> docs

• perl6 --> raku

In the meantime, type/Slip is fine, and if the page was redirected to the docs.raku.org site it would just work 100% correctly.

Right now, clicking the old link takes someone to https://github.com/Raku/old-design-docs!

Do you know if anyone is assessing how many inbound arrivals there are of this kind? Arriving at entirely the wrong site? Do you know what it would take to just redirect instead to docs.raku.org?

Sure, some percentage of such URLs will still be a bit broken, but at least they'll all be less broken -- at least they'll arrive at the right site -- and most will even arrive at the right page, and many at the right spot entirely. And the few that don't will turn up in the logs you're talking about.

---

FWIW, while my search on SO only took a few seconds, it nevertheless reminded me that I'd begun manually changing some links, mine and others', in 2019, to get a sense of the problem. I recall giving up after a few months of sporadic edit sessions because:

• There were of course far too many of them. Thousands of my own SO links, thousands of others' SO links, same thing for ones in reddit posts; twitter, etc.

• I could only change the links in my few hundred answers, not my or anyone else's comments because all SO comments are immutable. Same for tweets and, iirc, old reddit comments.

• I began to find that the doc structure was being changed, so links I'd changed had become broken.

I decided to pause until things settled down, reasoning they would eventually settle down. Fast forward 4 years and I decided to review the situation. But when I searched for an issue tracking this problem I couldn't find one.

[finanalyst]

@raiph Sorry I did not respond more quickly. I only noticed you had responded when I came to this repo for another reason.

Would it be possible for you to create an issue on the Raku/doc-website repo? It may be easier to track there and to find a way to deal with the issue of broken links in a systematic way.

[raiph]

Hi @finanalyst

Would it be possible for you to create an issue on the Raku/doc-website repo?

I'm torn. If you promise that you personally will commit to diligently chasing this, with real urgency, at least about ownership of the perl6.org domain name, that is to say, promise to drive at least that particular aspect to a conclusion in, say, N days, for a small N -- domain names get kept/lost relative to domain expiration dates once per day -- then I'll file this issue at the doc-website repo even though I think that's completely the wrong place for it.

Otherwise I'd rather just let the chips fall where they may, and continue to learn how to function in the Raku world, and move on to other concerns.

---

The doc-website says it's "Tooling to build/run the documentation website". This isn't about that. Here's what it's about:

1. First and foremost, owning/controlling the "perl6.org" domain. Last time I chose not to be a bit pushy, and crystal clear, about a domain name, one that was valuable to the entire Perl and Raku community, and, I knew, worth thousands of dollars, so worth keeping if all we did was turn around and sell it, the domain name was just left to expire. I was disappointed about that and don't want it to repeat, even though perl6.org has no financial value worth speaking of (though I still think we might regret it falling into malicious hands). So, do we own "perl6.org"? Last time I looked we did, but I don't want to focus on that. The bottom line is that if we don't own it anymore, then there's nothing that can be done. And if we do, but it's left to expire, or we don't suitably redirect it, then, although I think that would be a mistake, I will yield to whatever it is that others think is for the best, and just let this issue go.

2. If we do own the domain name "perl6.org", and plan to keep it for at least another N years, then do we anticipate there being anyone in 2024 who knows what to do, and is willing to do it, to have http://doc.perl6.org redirect to https://docs.raku.org (not to mention having other significant perl6.org subdomains suitably redirect; if we own the domain name and have someone doing one redirect, why not do all the redirects that make sense)?

3. I originally thought, and still think, that this belongs as an infrastructure issue. That's why I first filed it as such. But after looking for a best option after that initial filing went wrong (as explained in my opening comment), the instructions were crystal clear that, if I did not see an appropriate place to file an issue, then I could file it here, and someone else would move it accordingly. I do not want to lightly break with that process, especially given that the suggested new place to file it seems so wrong to me.

It may be easier to track there and to find a way to deal with the issue of broken links in a systematic way.

That seems wrong-headed to me. I just tried perl6.org, and even that redirected to the same place. So it doesn't matter if it's the general site, or the examples sub-domain/site, or the archives sub-domain/site, or whatever, it's all redirecting to the same place. Why deal with something that isn't specifically about the docs just because that's what I chose to focus on for the title of this issue, and it's what you focus on?

4. Maybe I should change the title yet again?

[jubilatious1]

Most "examples" URLs are broken:

https://examples.raku.org/categories/cookbook.html

https://examples.raku.org/categories/cookbook/03dates-and-times/
https://examples.raku.org/categories/cookbook/03dates-and-times/03-03-epoch-to-datetime.html