Report i18n issues here. about translations

[Andre601]

You should stop accusing people of things.

Whatever it was, I'm sure the punishment received was justified. Calling them "activists" show me, that you have a biased view and see them as evil individuals rather than just people with a different view.
Stop already.

[insertish]

Hi, I briefly saw this interaction yesterday but I didn't really engage in it, I don't know what you mean by gender-neutral ideology narrative, if you have an application that is meant to be used by a lot of people, presumably you should be able to address all of those people equally? This has nothing to do with 'ideology' or 'narratives', it's just how it should work.

You wouldn't have an application say "she reacted to your post" for all users when not all users are female?

Even accusing me of transphobia in the Revolt Lounge server, so that they would win the argument and kick me out.

I don't have enough context on this so I can't comment on it, I only read the actual language discussion part.

Italian has two grammatical genders, masculine and feminine, but no neuter, just as, in the grammatical category of number, it distinguishes singular from plural, but does not have the dual, present in other languages.

Right, sure but we still need a solution to the problem.

What do you suggest?

I think you brought up using the masculine form for "Benvenuto" because it's 'neutral', but it's obviously not, the dictionary says so at least.

There was a follow up discussion as well, and from what I can gather, the academic board or whatever did not provide any solutions either? I mean it's sort of up to the people to make a change then isn't it?

I wouldn't say a language can be set in stone either, things change all the time, there's so many dialects and region specific phrases, etc.

And this is supposed to be Open Source? At this point create a little company and privatize everything, so you can have your own internal policies and no one will complain.

This isn't an internal policy, this is just the status-quo, we've never had sort of set in stone translation guidelines. If you want to contribute in solid guidelines, feel free to open an RFC or an MR on this repo adding more guidance to the README.

And besides, just because something is open source doesn't mean you just have full authority over a project. Other people need to be listened to as well, and so far the general vibe I am seeing is that more people are against you than with you.

[sussycatgirl]

If there are personal problems, just use English, since it is grammatically predisposed to be neuter.

If you have such an issue with our translations then you're free to use english too, instead of making a massive drama over a rotated e :)

Also, from what I've gathered the character you're referring to as Cyrillic is not Cyrillic.

[Rexogamer]

We want everyone, regardless of how they identify, to feel welcome on Revolt - explicitly gendering them, or trying to enforce masculine terms/forms as "neutral" runs against that (at least to me). The singular they in English isn't entirely uncontroversial either (although it's been used for centuries at this point and the vast majority of people who take issue with it are transphobes anyway), but we use it because it's more inclusive and is a lot less clunky than writing "he/she" everywhere. Wherever possible, we try to either use gender neutral terms or avoid gendered language entirely.

Your attitude has been consistently hostile - you started off by accusing SingleSlice of "vandalising" the Italian translation, which isn't exactly assuming good faith, so why should we assume that of you? Comparing gender neutrality (and, more generally, the acknowledgement of trans/NB people) to "ideology" is a common tactic used by transphobes; in addition, your general tone and wording choices indicate that you are acting from a place of bad faith.

I will strongly advise that you drop this matter - you're clearly not getting much support here, and over time I imagine the schwa will either follow the path of the singular they and gain wider adoption or fall out of use if a better alternative comes along (that isn't either "assume the person is masculine" (which is problematic for obvious reasons) or "use o/a", which is clunky and assumes the user falls into the traditional gender binary, which isn't particularly inclusive in my eyes).

[NyaomiDEV]

Pitching in for just a moment to say I am an Italian and I have no issue with using Revolt in Italian; so that's literally a problem regarding this person and their like-minded people.

Also, there's a fair bit of ignorance here, because the schwa is literally present in a bunch of "dialects", like Neapolitan or Sicilian; so either this person can't pronounce it because they never really made an effort of understanding the entire reality of how Italian is spoken, also with particular respect to pronounciation (for example there's a lot of ways people pronounce the same words, but this person never even bothered to compare north to south), or, probably just because they're accusing all of you of being "activists" to save their transphobic buttocks.

Whatever the case may be, it's the people who make the language. You never really know if this becomes so commonplace that Accademia della Crusca is forced to adapt. That's literally how language is made.

Not only this, but Discord is private and they surely do want to capitalize off of everyone including transphobes, so no shit they will just take a dictionary and use whatever's on there to never have people complain to them or outright boycott them. Revolt is pretty much not Discord, and that's actually nice.

i will just leave this here

Regarding the first "fact" i hope that you are aware of the existance of letters that might share the same name? literally read this article, it tells you this specifically schwa is not native to Bavarian dialects of German, which are spoken in Southern Germany and Austria.

Literally, yesterday i gave told you that italian already includes words from other languages, why not letters?

Also

I will not give a crap about what an old-ass accademy says about my language, i, and other are alright with the use of the schwa till a better alternative forms.

Unfortunately, here, you are the minority, have a not so good life, hopefully it makes you change your mind, change and grow as a person.

[Andre601]

@askasys-code
Could you just stop already please?

It's a language, not your entire life. If you dislike it, don't use or translate it is my opinion here.
This is such a minor and pointless discussion that nobody here really needs to have. It only spams the inbox of people who want to be informed about actual major issues.
Perhaps it's bad that Revolt tries to gender-neutral a language that is gendered, but is that REALLY that bad? No. It's a translation on a software on the internet. Not the entire dictionary of Italy or whatever.

I myself also have issues with the german translation having this formal tone that sounds completely out of place, but instead of yelling here about it and creating a big argument, I discussed in on the server calmly with the proposal to have it changed to a more personal, direct tone.

But either way, making such a big fuzz about it - especially here of all places - will not help you get it solved. It rather gets you blocked and ignored by a multitude of people.
So again: Calm down, maybe drink a cup of tea, take a walk and then come back once you calmed down enough, because you clearly are in an emotional state.

[ramazaneris]

• Local development mode in user settings > desktop settings
  • https://autumn.revolt.chat/attachments/H8jDDXQ0H1Exy5e9BU2RjuxiabwE5gw-FViiws2BLS/image.png
• Event Name in server settings > overview
  • https://autumn.revolt.chat/attachments/17r1oCLt9rClVNthDdzAJ0Gufd75DZcLOBkhe9cw-g/image.png

[ramazaneris]

[ramazaneris]

[deluxghost]

not really untranslated strings, but related to i18n

the "bot" tag in message page under Chinese is overflowed:

and in member list, the text itself is cropped:

[ramazaneris]

My Acc > 2FA & Acc Management

[Mysterious-Dev]

Server settings > Overview

[Andre601]

There is a minor bug in weblate that makes it impossible to suggest a own translation for german.
The issue is, that for some reason you can't alter the text in the bottom text field. It's somehow locked and doesn't allow edits of any kind.

Link: https://weblate.insrt.uk/translate/revolt/web-app/de/?sort_by=-priority%2Cposition&offset=293

[Mysterious-Dev]

My Account panel on settings :

Suggestions panel on settings :

[insertish]

Need to add i18n strings for revoltchat/revite#258.

[f3rr31]

Currently missing strings in Weblate:

1) On Top-right search icon click:

« BACK TO MEMBERS

2) At Saved Notes page:

Presently [as of 31-OCT-21]:
app.main.channel.start.group
This is the start of your conversation.

Should be:
app.main.channel.start.saved
This is the start of your notes.

3) Home screen:

Join testers server
Donate to Revolt
Give feedback
Find Servers & Bots
Settings

Settings Button On Hover Text:
You can also right-click the user icon in the top left, or left click it if you're already home.

4) Settings ➝ Appearance:

Accent
Background
Foreground
Primary-background
Primary-header
Secondary-background
Secondary-foreground
Secondary-header
Tertiary-background
Tertiary-foreground
Block
Message-box
Mention
Scrollbar-thumb
Scrollbar-track
Status-online
Status-away
Status-busy
Status-streaming
Status-invisible
Success
Warning
Error
Hover

5) Server settings:

a) Server settings icon ➝ Overview ➝ Server description

Add a topic…

Sends a message when someone joins your server
There are 4 descriptors (Join/Leave/Kick/Ban) and the text above are the same for all.

b) Server settings icon ➝ Members

Search for a specific user…
Typo: 1 members

c) Server settings icon ➝ Roles

SAVE button

d) Server settings icon ➝ Categories

Blurbs:
Saved
Editing
Saving
New Category
Uncategorized

6) Presently [as of 29-DEC-21]:

a) “Discover Public Servers”
b) “Add a Server”
c) “Create Group”
d) “Add Friend”
e) “Audio codec powered by Opus”
f) “Logs you out of all sessions except this device.“
g) “Descriptions support Markdown formatting, learn more here.“
h) “ESC“
i) “The Theme Shop is currently under construction.“
j) “New messages since”
k) “Jump to the beginning”
l) “Turn on/off homescreen effects”
m) “Invite all of your friends, some cool bots, and throw a big party.“
n) “Join a community“
o) “Find a community based on your hobbies or interests.“
p) “You can report issues and discuss improvements with us directly here.“
q) “Let us know how we can improve our app by giving us feedback.“
r) “Two-factor authentication is currently work-in-progress, see v1 milestone here.“
s) “Set up Two-factor authentication“
t) “Set up 2FA on your account.“
u) “Delete your account, including all of your data. (sends an email to contact_ATMARK_revolt.chat)“
v) “You can report issues and discuss improvements with us directly here.“

[aeristhy]

this should be Filipino instead of Pilipino

[sayuri-gi]

Hi @insertish
Can you add the full sentence to here 8004cedea89d9ab8? that's a problem to sov languages because in this use case, we need to write the revolt word first. It seems others have added as welcome revolt due that reason but it doesn't express anything good or as greeting to someone.

[Tmpod]

I'm not sure if this issue is supposed to still be opened, but here it goes:

The whole Discover page is untranslatable, as well as the Discover Revolt and Add a server buttons (reported somewhere in here before too).

[Cynycal2003]

Hello @insertish, can you please add a variable on this phrase http://weblate.insrt.uk/translate/revolt/web-app/bn/?checksum=91ba4af88f393301 [e.g, something like {{user}} or similar]? In some languages, especially in Bengali for a correct translation of this phrase, user's name must be added as first. Like an example - "@insert- কে উত্তর দিচ্ছেন" / "@insert- কে উত্তর দিচ্ছি" is the correct Translation in where the user's name will be added in the first unlike English.

[Cynycal2003]

And I'm sorry I forgot to mention another thing is that can you please add the Full sentence to here http://weblate.insrt.uk/translate/revolt/web-app/bn/?checksum=8004cedea89d9ab8? Like what @sayuri-gi has mentioned, in some languages, we need to write the "Revolt" word as first, Bengali have the same problem tho in where you have to write "Revolt" word as first to show the correct Translation of this phrase

[Rexogamer]

this should be Filipino instead of Pilipino

Fixed in 36e4e9e

[CJGutz]

There is a spelling mistake in the norwegian translations.
This is the sentence: "issue_desc": "For å gjør det lettere for oss å lette etter feil, kan du rapportere det på GitHub.",
It should be: "issue_desc": "For å gjøre det lettere for oss å lete etter feil, kan du rapportere det på GitHub.",

Switched gjør to gjøre and lette to lete.

Created a pull request here: #204
I also did it through the webslate page which might have been the better way to do it.

[Rexogamer]

^ has been fixed

[askasys-code]

It's funny how the Revolt staff doesn't really want to fix the Italian translation that is spelling incorrect, because they want to keep their gender-neutral ideology narrative on a language where it can't be done.
Even accusing me of transphobia in the Revolt Lounge server, so that they would win the argument and kick me out.

https://weblate.insrt.uk/translate/revolt/web-app/it/?checksum=893a34ca390ecf8f&q=state%3Aapproved#suggestions

master...askasys-code:translations:patch-1

Expect to force a language distortion in the service of an ideology, is very unprofessional.
Italian has two grammatical genders, masculine and feminine, but no neuter, just as, in the grammatical category of number, it distinguishes singular from plural, but does not have the dual, present in other languages. Biological sex and gender identity are different things from grammatical gender.

However, Revolt staff reject the facts.
I am writing it here so that it will remain well imprinted on the Internet.

And this is supposed to be Open Source? At this point create a little company and privatize everything, so you can have your own internal policies and no one will complain.

[askasys-code]

if you have an application that is meant to be used by a lot of people, presumably you should be able to address all of those people equally?

Right, but those who use Revolt with the Italian interface are assumed to be Italian, and so there is no problem in using Benvenuto.
If there are personal problems, just use English, since it is grammatically predisposed to be neuter.
No Italian person is offended by the grammar of their own language.

There was a follow up discussion as well, and from what I can gather, the academic board or whatever did not provide any solutions either? I mean it's sort of up to the people to make a change then isn't it?

The academy has not provided any solution since it has already explained how Italian grammar works, so there is no solution to a problem that is not even there.
It is solely a personal matter of the individual.

The academy has expressed not to use that Cyrillic letter in official contexts (e.g. public documents, or public websites).
However there is full freedom to change the language for personal purposes, in personal spaces (Example: One's own blog, one's own website).

Revolt is a portal intended for a large audience right? Like Discord after all.
So why is there no translation problem on Discord?

And besides, just because something is open source doesn't mean you just have full authority over a project. Other people need to be listened to as well, and so far the general vibe I am seeing is that more people are against you than with you.

Looks like I'm the only Italian though. Discussing that the Italian language works a certain way to foreign people is not at all easy.
As I explained before, we have grammatical gender, and this has nothing to do with the gender of people.
So if, for example, a woman reads Benvenuto in a generic context like "Benvenuto utente" (Welcome user), this word automatically becomes neutral, and so no problem.

However, I can propose to use Benvenuto/a , although visually ugly, but at least it could be accepted by everyone.

Italian works this way, so does Spanish. It is not that one day you wake up and decide to change a language because some individuals do not like a certain grammatical function.

[askasys-code]

If you have such an issue with our translations then you're free to use english too, instead of making a massive drama over a rotated e :)

Then why the insistence to keep a wrong Italian translation?
After today I will no insist about Revolt, I want just to explain facts here, for other people.

Also, from what I've gathered the character you're referring to as Cyrillic is not Cyrillic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa_(Cyrillic)

Facts.

To conclude.

The use of Cyrillic on the Italian language, besides being problematic grammatically for the reasons explained before, it is also unreadable phonetically, this causes a problem for all Italians.
Seriously, how should I pronounce a letter that does not exist in my alphabet? I understand that there is also a certain will in wanting to "update" a language of a country, but how come this is only happening in the last 2 years? What about all the past centuries? All the Italian poets and philosophers of the past who have contributed to improving the language?
Italian is not a new language, it is an already evolved language, and it has very ancient origins, Latin.

This experience will still be documented.

[askasys-code]

i will just leave this here

i will just leave this here

Facts

[askasys-code]

So you are an activist. I get it.
There is no discussion then.
You will let your narrative prevail regardless.

Here I have already expressed everything that needed to be said. The decision will be made by the majority, not by a minority.

Have a good life.

[askasys-code]

Unfortunately, here, you are the minority, have a not so good life, hopefully it makes you change your mind.

Here, certainly I am the minority, there is only me.
Revolt is yours, do what you want.
But the Italian language will not be changed in that stupid way in other places.
Also it leaks youthfulness in your words, you don't have enough awareness of the issue. "Old-ass academy" you said, nice, this just confirm everything of your behavior.
But if you and your friends have an activist mentality, there is nothing to do.

As I said before, this will be documented.

Yeah, so far i have encountered only one Italian on revolt being so closed minded as you are, we had this argument yesterday already, you got confronted by me and another Italian person, and it ended up with you being banned for your ignorance of the code of conduct.
Nothing more to say here, I hope.

[askasys-code]

@Andre601 You are absolutely right, but I started with a simple report. And I discussed it very calmly on the Revolt Lounge server, however they treated me as a transphobic bigot and banned me, thus preventing me from providing explanations.
Instead, I thought I'd provide here all the necessary information that may be useful for a correct translation. GitHub has visibility, and other Italians may be interested in the issue.
But, if there are a couple of activists who instead of approving the changes reject them and stick with their narrative, then that's okay, it's not the end of the world.