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[Flightgear-devel] helping someone who is blind beginning to fly with the Cessna

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 02:11

I was looking to see if anyone who is blind can fly with Flight Gear?

Curtis Olson <[email protected]> 20/03/15 02:52

Hi Scott,

I know that someone who was blind had contacted me a couple years ago. I just did a search through my email and I'm not able to dig anything up right now. I'll keep looking, maybe I can find the message if I experiment with other search terms.

Are you thinking about audio cues like a voice to tell you to roll right or left a bit or pitch up or down, or raise or lower the throttle?

Our autopilot has a "flight director" mode which means it does all the steps to fly the plane, except actually move the controls. Maybe with a bit of nasal scripting we could rig up some voice commands to trigger based on the difference between the target attitude and the actual attitude? I personally don't have a lot of extra volunteer time right now, but I'd definitely be willing to work with other contributors on this.

I could see a related side application for landing model airplanes (I'm an RC pilot on the side.) It would be interesting to have a computer next to me giving me audio cues to help line up my airplane for better and more consistent landings.

Regards,

Curt.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 04:15

I’d be happy to be the voice behind the options. Yeah you bet that’s exactly what I am thinking.

Anders Gidenstam <[email protected]> 20/03/15 09:12

To my knowledge it has happened some years ago (and may still happen).
(I believe - all communication was over IRC so the case could be somewhat
short of certainty...)

At the time I made some crude tools, available here
http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/accessibility/
but I think they have since been tailored and improved by the user in
question.

Cheers,

Anders

Torsten Dreyer <[email protected]> 20/03/15 09:22

We have this new webbrowser UI, I am currently working on.
In it's current state it is not barrier-free but it should be very easy to add the required features and use many existing tools like screen readers or to give audible feedback use text-to-speech conversion.

If someone can guide me to what is needed, I am happy to implement it.

Torsten

Sandi Jazmin Kruse <[email protected]> 20/03/15 10:52

hi.
First too Scot, the person in question is me, Sandi.
As Anders said i have improved his tools somewhat, adding a little
there, cutting a little there, mainly too increase speech speed.
The very short story goes down like this, when i joined we did not
have any way that a blind person could use Flightgear at all. So,
Espeak too the rescue, how it works exactly , i am not sure about,
but, as far as i know i use a Perlscript that immolates festival,
sending its output too Espeak.
The rest is a few nas files.
There might be better planes than the Cessna, the Storch is better at
least in my opinion.
Scot, remember this, he, she have too listen too the speech, and take
action from that, it means a little more reaction time is needed,
landing the storch in tight places, however is not at all a problem, i
did it when me and my GF took it from Kastrup too ksfo a few years
back. talk about long flights.
too Curt, making it all automatic is all good and well, but would you
sit into an fully automated car? I can say that personally i would
not.
Scot, if you need more help let me know, but lets keep it on the list
so as many as possible benefits from it , K?

/Sandi

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 13:46

Hi Sandi,

This sounds great. I agree that automatic isn’t the way we want to go. I do however need to know how this was all set up and maybe this can be something which is put in Flight Gear and added upon. I think we could make Flightgear very accessible. Do you have any instructions though at this point as to how the talking side of your system works?

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 13:52

Torsten,

Is there a way to look at what you currently have? That would give me an idea of what to tell you to implement. I would say for one thing make sure you have all alt tags labeled exactly as to what the buttons, edit boxes and labels do firstly. Secondly, I have found that the screen readers happen to get in the way so on the Mac it may be good after you may want to turn off Voiceover but indicating that before you shut it down. Thirdly, maybe we can either have a choice for real files for speech or speak/festival files in the ui and then it downloads those files. This may give you a start if you have more questions let me know.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 13:56

Anders,

I’ll take a look at those tools. Maybe we can get them corrected and working better than they are and keep improving and have a great accessibility part of Flightgear. I do think once improved though we should either implement this in to Flightgear itself or have it download as a separate file.

Anders Gidenstam <[email protected]> 20/03/15 14:10

The most useful part is speak.nas and I've also got the updated version
from Sandi now. I'll compare them and add her file in the same directory
ASAP.

My version:
http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/accessibility/speak.nas

Cheers,

Anders

Adam Dershowitz <[email protected]> 20/03/15 14:39

t seems to me that a pretty good starting point would be to add simulated no-gyro PAR approaches to FlightGear. These are approaches where ATC essentially talks the pilot down. Some basic information is available here:
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc/atc0510.html
The above includes the standard phraseology that is used.

I believe that blind pilots would likely need additional information beyond what is provided by ATC for no-gyro approaches. To have these approaches in FlightGear would be interesting for all IFR FG users, and would be a good starting point for building a system for blind pilots.

-- Adam

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 14:54

Sandi,

Would you mind sharing what you have done with me so I can maybe see where we can improve some more?

Sandi Jazmin Kruse <[email protected]> 20/03/15 16:07

hi,
First too scot, anders can properly explain it better, but here goes.
think about this, all of our instruments, speed, pitch, bank is
numeric variables, it is just these numbers that is send too the
speech, really.
what can be done as for making flightgear more accessible i have no
idea about, i remember that anders and Jester have used many hours
making it work, the only thing I've done really is adding more keys
for a few things.
Having an automated act that could talk the pilot down could be
interesting, am not sure how it would work, though.
round ksfo you just tune into the Ils. and voyla.
Scot, if your friend is on a mac it will take under 10 minutes too set
it up, i can send you an Dmg file with all the needed files, but i
believe anders have it on his site too.
best Sandi who knows that the Storch is as made for towing.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 17:48

Sandi,

Please send me the dMG that would be great so I can see what you have done.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 17:50

Adam,

I agree I’ll take a look at that and see if I can come up with some standard maybe to get us started.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 17:51

Anders,

I would do a separate file and just have a checkbox on the ui that would download these files.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 17:55

Sandi,

Just to clarify it’s me who now has the Mac so I am the one who will be using this.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 20/03/15 17:57

Anders,

When you make improvements is there a way that you could actually take on the command line so that the command line options are set automatically? This would help to ensure there are no mistakes when typing in the commands and it should probably have a test to ensure everything is working correctly before one begins flying.

Sandi Jazmin Kruse <[email protected]> 21/03/15 11:45

too scot http://www88.zippyshare.com/v/F45MT0hS/file.html

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 21/03/15 20:29

Hi Sandi,

I got the files. How do I install this or what documents do I need to read to know how to install this?

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 21/03/15 20:43

Hi Sandi and all helping with accessibility,

Have you had anyone explain how it’s shown that for instance the brakes are locked? We need a keystroke probably for that as well. We need it to indicate to us whether the brakes are set or not. We also probably will need specialized keys in some of the aircrafts for specific instruments unless we can come up with a file that would allow all keystrokes to be the same over all different aircraft types. For instance, on some aircraft you have to have certain levels set or certain knobs turned.

Scott Berry <[email protected]> 25/03/15 16:01

Sandi,

I am not sure if this message got out. How do I set up Festival and do I need espeak or not? Also I think there is a read file for setting up Anders’s accessibility parts right?

[Flightgear-devel] Blind Pilots

Gilberto Peixoto <[email protected]> 02/09/17 20:21

Hello,
Blind Pilots? Yes, You read it right! There are a lot of Blind People like Me who Love Airplanes and play Flight Simulators, mainly Microsoft Flight Simulator X and Prepar3d.
Of course probably some of You are asking how can a Blind Person use Flight Simulators if They can't see the Screen? How can They read the instruments, perform the various tasks and safely fly a Plane?
The truth is We can do all those things thanks to the use of Screen Readers like Jaws For Windows or NVDA which is free and Open Source combined with a few Adons, one of them specifically developed for the Blind called ItsYourPlane. Plus at least 2 other Adons, Multi Crew Experience and FSX Pilot. All of them create a virtual Co Pilot which assists with the different tasks like Checklists and so many others, allowing a Blind Person to use Flight Simulators just like everyone else.
There are a few Forums like the ones listed bellow talking about this and there are also some Videos, specially in the ItsYourPlane Page showing how a Blind Person can fly a Plane
I'm Blind and have always been a Airplane entusiast and have always been looking for ways to be able to use Flight Simulators. Unfortunately most of them are expensive and the Adons are also not free, at least for now, which make things a bit more difficult.
I found out about Flight Gear when I read a post on a Forum where a Blind Person was asking if Flight Gear was accessible to the Blind and I thought about giving it a try both the Windows and the MAC Version.
I was surprised to see the first Game Screen is mostly accessible in Windows with NVDA and also in the MAC using Voiceover and that is why I decided to write You.
To ask if You would consider, not only making the first screen more accessible to Screen Readers, but also creating an Adon or includding in the Game the possibility of having a Co Pilot with whom We could interact by voice in the same way real Pilots do and have said Co Pilot execute the commands issued but at the same time still allowing (in the case of a Blind Person) to perform taxying, Takeoff and Landing by following the Co Pilot's instructions pretty much in the same way People do when they follow GPS voice instructions.
Another alternative would be making it possible for the already existing Adons to work with Flight Gear, although I understand that could probably be a bit more difficult.
Bellow are the links to ItsYourPlane (that unfortunately is not being sold anymore and probably and hopefully will become Open Source) Page where You will be able to find information about it and also Videos.
Also the Multi Crew Experience Page where You can find a Demo and also some Videos. Although this Adon was not developed specifically for the Blind it has an Option which allows Blind Pilots to use it.
Also there is FSX Pilot Page and some Forums where You will be able to read and learn more about how Blind People interact with Flight Simulators and maybe also other things We would like to be able to do and I did not mention.

http://www.itsyourplane.com/

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fs-add-ons-for-the-blind.439198/

http://www.fsxpilot.com/

http://www.multicrewxp.com/

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/120187-programming-the-mcdu-as-a-blind-pilot/

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/110775-attention-all-bus-drivers/

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/511051-bvi-mode-and-staying-airborne/

Thank You very much for taking the time to read this Message. I sincerely hope the things I suggested can be done and although I have no programming skills I will be glad to help in any way I can.

Best Regards,

Gilberto

MarcL <[email protected]> 05/09/17 14:53

Hello Gilberto,

Thanks for the information.

I was waiting for a constructive answer from an real flightgear developer with fluent English language , before accused of recept.

Yes the sim is unfortunately missing those necessary features.
Which is not correct,

Part of the efforts for development should be shared so that the Blind user could use that simulator.

I am not myself experienced enough to work on the necessary coding, manly interfaces.
I hope somebody within FG team development will start studying and developing it.
I hope for every blind persons FG will be accessed for the shortest term.

Sorry for my English

--
Kind regards,

Marc

https://sourceforge.net/projects/flightgear-scenery-ship

Gilberto Peixoto <[email protected]> 05/09/17 15:32 05/09/17 15:37

Mark,
Thank You very much for replying to My Message.
In fact it would be wonderful if Flight Gear can include the features I mentioned.
Also here are the links to Freedom Scientific Web Page where You can find a demo of Jaws for Windows and also the NVDA Project where You will be able to find NVDA which is free so You Guys can have an idea of how a Blind Person interacts with a Computer. Also Apple products include Voiceover built in the system and it allows Us to also use MAC computers.

wwww.freedomscientific.com

www.nvda-project.org

Best regards,

Gilberto

James Turner <[email protected]> 05/09/17 20:16

Hi Gilberto,

Actually we have (or had, anyway) one existing partially sighted user of the software, but I didn’t follow what technologies they were using to interact with it. Some other people here may be able to comment if that person is still in the community or what solutions they found.

The launcher (the first screen you mentioned) is accessible thanks to the GUI technology it uses, however the rest of the UI needs to be replaced in order to support the accessibility APIs. This work is currently being prototyped and should happen in the next year. Of course the user-interface is a fairly small part of the system!

Kind regards,
James

Gilberto Peixoto <[email protected]> 05/09/17 21:04

James,
Thanks for the info. I know this kind of thing can take a lot of time, specially if You are talking about replacing the UI. I'm glad its that is already being done or considered for the future. I know nothing about programming but I will be glad to help with what I can.

Gilberto

Alan Teeder <[email protected]> 05/09/17 22:30

The current work by Rudolfo Leibner – see “Spoken ATC v1.0 is Ready” in this mail list - may be useful.

Regards

Alan

Hi Josh,

Up front, sorry for the length... please skip if not interested in FlightGear accessibility capabilities...

Thank you for the NVDA pointer... I had thoughts of helping in this earlier, but had no information in what was required... and missed a previous mention of NVDA...

I have now forked, cloned and built NVDA using MSVC, in Windows 10, and have run it for a few days to get the experience... very, very interesting and enlightening...

With the information from running many other apps with NVDA I begin to understand some things...

For FG, here I am using the RC current 2018.1.1, but can and do build FG from source...

The launcher left menu talks from summary down to fly but some of the content pages say nothing. This is a problem particularly with say the Aircraft page since the Install Aircraft does not talk, nor the Browse menu button or page, so it is difficult to download and install new aircraft... Not sure if this is NVDA or how those pages are setup... others pages are ok, or nearly ok...

And when you click Fly! flightgear (FG) is deadly silent... except for its own speach... Again is it how FG sets up the menu, or a NVDA problem, so with the default c172p how to know about the menu C172P -> Autostart, c172p -> Tutorials, ... etc for instance... As James mention perhaps this would change if the FG UI is changed, but I think something can be done now...

As we know FG itself already talks like the Welcome abord ... tutorial spoken message, but why not say the you are on runway 08 etc messages... and would there be a way to add talking to the menu? The hovering mouse raises the menu item, and FG should say what is raised, and follow the dropdown focus... as NVDA does on other apps...

And then each of the hotspots have a popup message, which could/should be spoken, maybe not by NVDA, but by FG itself... Then similar popup message could be added to say the ASI, Engine RPM, Fuel Levels, etc, like there is for the magnetic compass, so there would be lots of spoken information as you mouse around... like NVDA does in other apps...

It seems the Tutorials already speak the written instructions, which is good, but without the talking hotspots there is no way to know the mouse is over the appropriate area - of course visually there is a circle drawn - but the hotspots need to talk to be able to action them, and that goes for the dialogs openned, like the fuel check - the buttons and text on this and other dialogs must talk...

So from this quick review, there seems a lot that can be done in FG, if put in say a talking mode...

I enable --httpd=5050, and first tried the C172p Panel in Browser, and this offers a lot of greating talking stuff. AIS, RPM, ... etc, and while it can talk the numbers on the gauges, like 5, 10, 15, on the RPM, BUT what it does not say is where the needle is now!

Like for the magneto test, how can I hear I have raised it to 1700, then back in FG, hear that I switched to LEFT, the popup does say Magnetos: LEFT, then back to the panel, hear that the RPM was now 1600, etc...

So while the panel in a browser offers some great posibilities, there need to be some perhaps hidden text generated, like RPM 1700 so this becomes speakable... similar for each of the other panel instruments...

Then switching to Phi, since this is all, or mostly text, in a browser, it is all spoken by NVDA, and presumably by other talking s/w in other OS'es. so it offers a great deal of information, like Simulator -> Properties and all the props are there, and can be spoken...

But concerning the current value of the RPM needle, need ideas on how to do this... the data fetched from FG properties correctly sets the needle position... maybe there could be a visible label added under the instument where RPM 1700 is set for NVDA to read when hovering... or something...

And while in FG, the Radio Frequencies dialog, F12, is dead silent, although selecting say the COM1 edit box, you can hear keyboard entries, how can you know you are in that box?. And it does not read-back what is there, however while in the Phi Radiostack all items will be spoken, new figures entered, etc...

So it seems there are lots of possibilities, (a) in FG using FG internal text-to-speach, and (b) in the Panel/Phi to speak current values...

But even with both these added, some additional things would be needed...

Ok, your on the runway, engine running, done checks, but how are you warned that as you increase the engine speed, small aircraft, like the c172p, will pull left, and must be corrected to continue the rolling takeoff... how to hear from the ASI that you have reached takeoff speed - time to pull back a little on the stick, or add up elevator through the keyboard - and as soon as the wheels leave the runway - what audible signal is there for this - again light craft will immediately tend to wander off course - again what gives the audio clue?

Simularly for flying - course, speed, elevation, climb rate, etc, etc - audible feedback... and then landing - on runway heading, agl, speed, etc, etc...

So while FG can and should having a talking mode, it seems some of that feedback could only come from either an internal takeoff, flight, landing module, maybe nasal, that speaks the stuff needed, or a separate external app built to give such information verbally that communicates with the active FG through one of its many IO channels, like Phi/WebPanel or its telnet interface or ...

And here I am not talking about 100% automation, although that too could be done, but just giving verbally the information a pilot needs in each situation...

Like I can see a PHI/Webpanel component that does not have instument images - it just has text showing the current value... it could have modes, parked, taxiing, take-off, flight, landing... And in each of these modes had like a single line of words to read - those values would be according to information important to that mode... so there could be a single line of audible feedback...

I have searched back somewhat in the archives, and found at least two past topic -

1. [Flightgear-devel] helping someone who is blind beginning to fly with the Cessna - 2015 - and would particularly like to get
   Ander's http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/misc/accessibility/speak.nas - hope that can be added again somewhere...

2. [Flightgear-devel] Blind Pilots - 2017

I have read back through these, but would appreciate any other links into the past...

Finally, I have a lot of questions that I need to put... I do not think here on the FG devel list is the right place... Yes, when it is directly relating to developing FG... But this is a quite special community group, with a special need, although I do see it being of assistance to new sighted pilots as well, and we need a place to chatter and not clutter up this dev list...

Any ideas on that very welcome... and personally I would not like a forum format... and not a fan of IRC, although that too can have its use... I want emails to come to my inbox, where I can filter them to particular folders, run tests, make checks, do research, and reply...

One idea I have is to start say a FlightGear Access repo on github, then use the issues there... accordingly have init'ed https://github.com/geoffmcl/FGAccess... would add others who want to contribute... but anybody can add to issues... I will shortly add all this as a start... or otherwise...

Again sorry for the length... but while the community numbers may be quite small it is an important issue that I am interested in helping with...

Regards,
Geoff.

[Flightgear-devel] making flightGear accessible with NVDA screen-reader

Josh Kennedy <[email protected]> 28/02/18 03:35

Hello,

I am currently a eurofly pilot.

http://www.stefankiss.sk/modules.php?name=eurofly&file=downloadcenter&lng=en

But I would also like to be able to fully use and play, and fly all planes in the flightGear game. Could developers on this email list please make an interface module between flightGear and the open source NVDA screen reader which would make the game fully playable by visually impaired people who use screen readers?

www.nvaccess.org

I would really like to play a more realistic flight simulator. If NVDA could fully interface with flightGear and all aircraft, this would be wonderful!

Thanks

Josh

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Torsten Dreyer <[email protected]> 28/02/18 09:45

Looks like this is Windows only - sorry, there is not much I can do (not using Windows at all).
Probably somebody else on Win want to give it a try?

Torsten

Torsten Dreyer

Edward d'Auvergne <[email protected]> 28/02/18 10:00

Josh, is there an equivalent free software screen reader that works on
all operating systems? Even if it were lower quality, that might make
accessing the accessibility application easier for all FlightGear
developers to experiment with.

Cheers,

Edward

Daniel Wolak <[email protected]> 28/02/18 12:34

Hi,

I'm not Josh but being blind as well I can answer this question. There unfortunately isn't a screenreader for all platforms. There are however speech modules that I believe work on all opperating systems. I'm thinking espeak primarily, and maybe festival, although I'm not sure if there's a windows binary.

Also, for windows in particular there's the microsoft speech api(sapi).

For output on windows tolk is the option I personally use. It is primarily windows based, but can output to most screenreaders including nvda, jaws, sapi and several more.

Cheers,

Daniel

Josh Kennedy <[email protected]> 28/02/18 17:17

Windows has NVDA. Mac has voiceover which is free, and Ubuntu Linux has Orca screen reader which is also free.

Josh Kennedy <[email protected]> 28/02/18 18:38

No. there is

NVDA for windows.
Voiceover for mac
Orca for Linux
Talkback for android

Each is specific to that OS.

Thorsten Renk <[email protected]> 02/03/18 07:55

As a start, it would be great to have some tags in the interface,
although as far as I can see at least the home screen is mostly
accessible. It would also be nice to have an ability to read out the
gages.
(...)
However, it
would be nice if there could somehow be accessible output that
announces the state of that as I interact with it.

That at least seems a simple matter of adding an option to the tooltip function to forward the tip string to the text to speech feature - so whenever you hover over a tooltip-equipped element long enough such that the tip pops up, you'd hear the content of the tip being read out.

Probably no more than a few lines added to the Nasal code (and some care in defining tooltips that don't come out garbled...)

• Thorsten

Edward d'Auvergne <[email protected]> 02/03/18 09:51

On 2 March 2018 at 00:18, Daniel Wolak [email protected] wrote:

Evening,

Thanks for the response. I'm going to put a bit of background here if I
might, to describe how we used to be able to access fsx.

For a great many years, there was a virrtual copilot called itsyourplane,
herein refered to as simply iyp. This acted as an interface between the user
and the aircraft, although it used speech recognition. It allowed control of
most aircraft systems, and had specific checklists ETC. It also had the
ability to read out certain information including things such as speed,
heading altitude ETC.

As a start, it would be great to have some tags in the interface, although
as far as I can see at least the home screen is mostly accessible. It would
also be nice to have an ability to read out the gages. As far as a fully
detailed description, it would be nice down the line somewhere, but I'd say
that it's not 100% required for succesfull opperation. The key is to be able
to keep an eye on the gages, as those are crucial in my book. Now
personally, I've not been able to have a play about with the main interface
itself, yet, although I do have some time and shall do some of that this
evening. An interesting little thing I noticed as I was looking, once you
select fly now in the main interface and the aircraft loads, screenreaders
don't read out the menu bar. I'm only on windows, so am not sure what the
state on mac/linux is. I'm not sure how they are layed out, but generally
pressing alt brings up the menu bar. So let's say that I want to go to
help>tutorials. Press alt, the menu pops up. I then arrow over to help,
enter the menu and then select tutorials. I'm not sure if this is by design
to prevent people from having the menus popping up or it's something on my
end. Jumping back to how we interact with sims, I think the key is to have
spoken feedback. An example is the magnetos. Let's say that I want to start
up the default aircraft. As I'm looking at the wiki, it tells me to press }
three times to set on both... Fantastic, excelently detailed. However, it
would be nice if there could somehow be accessible output that announces the
state of that as I interact with it. Just some general thoughts. Sorry I
can't be more specific, but I don't really have the coding chops for
something like this. Sure, I've done some python, but this is a whole
different animal.

Do let me know if there are any specifics that would be useful, or if
there's anything that you would like me to elaberate on further.

This is an interesting review about this It's Your Plane software in
"blind pilot mode":

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?14197-Yes-Blind-People-Can-Become-Flight-Simmers

The video at the end is useful demo (but strangely text at the start
of the video is not blind-friendly). Using your voice to communicate
with FlightGear might be a little difficult, but there would be other
uses for such new infrastructure (for example Thorsten's Alouette III
copilot). Mozilla DeepSpeech as a 3rd party addition would be one
open source option [1], but I don't know much about this area. This
might need a lot of infrastructure work though.

Regards,

Edward

[1] https://github.com/mozilla/DeepSpeech

merspieler <[email protected]> 20180304

Hi Daniel,

Daniel Wolak:

although it used speech
recognition. It allowed control of most aircraft systems, and had
specific checklists ETC. It also had the ability to read out certain
information including things such as speed, heading altitude ETC.

Right now I'm working on a speech recognition based copilot.
Right now it includes voice commands for gear, flaps (inclusive speed
checks) and checklists.
Assistant for blind persons wasn't directly my intention when creating
it but it might be a point to start with.

It's based on mycroft ( https://mycroft.ai/ ) which is currently not
available for windows so you'd need to run flight gear on Linux or have
a Linux machine running parallel to your Windows one.

If you're willing to assist me, I could add a mode for blind persons
which suits their need (I have no idea what's needed to fly blind).

regards,

merspieler