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Rebuild civilization after the end of the world. A fork of classic DeCiv Redux. Uses FantasyHex tiles and units.

unciv-mod unciv-mod-rulesets

deciv-2's Issues

Fixing the factions: Deadrock Clan

With espionage now being a thing, we need to make a few other changes, and I want to start with changing the Deadrock Clan, our favorite organized crime syndicate. They deserve to have some spy stuff as part of their unique abilities, and I think they could use some other fixes as well. Some ideas to consider:

  • Giving them an extra spy seems like an easy call. I think they should also have some spy resistance, and I suggest that we tie it to a building. Having the Clubhouse grant localized spy resistance, perhaps of -15%, feels right to me.
  • With espionage being their new shtick, we should remove some other unique abilities. The unique of quickly recovering city-state influence no longer seems necessary since they can use spies to rig elections. Let Blackwarden keep that one for themselves. The unique of recruiting barbarians also seems like a bad fit. Leave that one to Crimson Legion.
  • That said, without recruiting barbarians, Deadrock could be at a major disadvantage because they are currently highly dependent on having slaves in order to build military units. I think that we should reduce their dependence on slavery.

Those are my opening thoughts. What do you all say? How can we modernize the Deadrock Clan?

Brainstorming big ideas

Starting Deciv 2 as its own fork gives us the opportunity to make big changes in order to fix longstanding flaws or shortcomings. I'm starting this thread to open the floor for these kinds of suggestions. I'll start with one of my own, having to do with money.

Having water as currency makes sense in the early game, when water is scarce. It makes less sense as the game progresses. An actual economy would find new ways of backing their money as they got better at sourcing fresh water. Unciv has a few tricks that we could use to reflect this change. Buildings and tile improvements can become obsolete as the player discovers new technologies. Starting in the early game would allow you to use these water-based money boosters, but you'd have to use different tools later. Currency could change to using precious metals, and then advance to using cryptocurrency as electronics advance. How does this sound?

Espionage Suggestions and Discussion

So, it happened. The major missing G&K mechanic was finally added.

This will be a discussion for how espionage should be incorporated into this fork of DeCiv over the next few days (re: keeping it true to DeCiv flavor).

Relevant Buildings and Wonders
I propose converting the Listening Post into the Tier 1 anti-spy building and introducing a new building to function as the Great Person booster. My expansion mod "Outlaws of the Wastes" has already partially done this with its Community Garden building in its latest update, but I am interested in hearing any ideas the rest of the DeCiv community has here. If the Community Garden in Outlaws of the Wastes is ported over to this fork instead of making an entirely new building, some adjustments to other buildings that are unrelated to espionage might be made.

Additionally, Crimson Legion's Colosseum and Cult of Ignis' Arena UBs would be altered so that they replace the Stadium instead of the Listening Post and they would receive additional UBs to serve as their new Listening Post replacements. (I have no clue what Ignis' new Listening Post replacement might be called or even if there's a possible lore-accurate one to add. Legion's is easy, though: Frumentarii Camp.)

My proposed name for the Tier 2 anti-spy building would be the Field Office, which would be identical stat-wise to G&K's Police Station, and the connected National Wonder would be called the National Security Service which would also be identical stat-wise to G&K's National Intelligence Agency; the only differences being the techs that unlock them.

I do not yet have a proposal for a Great Firewall equivalent for DeCiv.

There also needs to be a question raised: should the Listening Post keep its other effect of eliminating extra unhappiness from annexed cities or not? If not, should the Prison Camp be reworked?

Spy Names
At present, I only have possible spy name lists for seven of the fourteen factions in the current iteration of DeCiv Redux and will be counting on others to create flavor-accurate spy name lists for the others, as well as to revise the name lists I currently have.

  • Atlas' proposed spy name list borrows the names of characters from its source material, Atlas Shrugged. The list: "Dagny", "Rearden", "Wyatt", "Akston", "Danagger", "Midas", "Kay", "Quentin", "Halley", "Allen".
  • Blackwarden's proposed spy name list is based on various executive officers and other important employees of the PMC formerly known as Blackwater. The list: "Al", "Cofer", "Richer", "Ashcroft", "Quinn", "Bonfiglio", "Danielle", "Inman", "Robinson", "Folsom".
  • Crimson Legion's proposed spy name list borrows the spy name list for the Caesar's Legion mod for official Civ 5, with some adjustments to also include from the cancelled Van Buren and a certain Honest Hearts mod for New Vegas. The list: "Vulpes", "Cato", "Alerio", "Caius", "Ulysses", "Silus", "Picus", "Aurelius", "Severus", "Livius".
  • Cult of Ignis' proposed spy name list borrows the names of various antagonists from the Mad Max franchise, half of them being from Immortan Joe's War Boys. The list: "Rictus", "Scabrous", "Rizzdale", "Fang", "Smeg", "Nux", "Slit", "Morsov", "Wez", "Zanetti".
  • The Mariners' proposed spy name list can only use characters from Waterworld. (Considering the city list naming theme for the faction uses the names of the actors + actresses, this is duly given.) The list: "Enola", "Gregor", "Sawzall", "Priam", "Bone", "Toby", "Smitty", "Djeng", "Truan", "Ledger".
  • New Star's proposed spy name list... I decided to have a little fun with this one. Going off the updated faction lore for the planned Rebirth Edition update, I decided to use a variety of fictional characters whose last names are all Starling. The list: "Henry", "Jim", "Clarice", "Juliet", "Ashlee", "Robyn", "Ben", "Jodie", "Harvey", "Juno".
  • Proklyatyye's proposed spy name list borrows from Roadside Picnic and two of the works it inspired: S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Metro 2033. The list: "Redrick", "Victor", "Artyom", "Kirill", "Dr. Kruglov", "Mr. Strugatsky", "Vitalik", "Lebedev", "Letyaga", "Mirsky".

Of the unaddressed factions, Enclavers should be easiest to figure out (notable survivalists in either real life or fiction), followed by New Afrika (no clear theme stands out, but stick to male African names you'd expect to find in Mali, Ethiopia, and also over on this side of the Pacific in Jamaica and it should be fine). Rust, Commonwealth and Patriots will be the hard ones.

Timing of Unlocking Spies
Let's be honest: this is going to be a mess. In official Civ 5, the first spies for everyone are gained once any civilization reaches the Renaissance era. In the current version of DeCiv, four of the mod's fourteen factions have starting techs that automatically put them in its equivalent era, the Rebuilding era. Do those factions need to be adjusted so that they are kicked out of the Rebuilding era? Does the tech tree need to be adjusted? Or will the "simple" solution (which doesn't fix enough) merely be to have the first spies unlock at the Industrial era so shenanigans don't occur in games where any of the relevant factions (Atlas, Blackwarden, Hexlock, Patriots) spawn?

Edit 1: Added Ignis and Mariner spy names.
Edit 2: Added Blackwarden spy names.
Edit 3: Another tidbit on Legion/Ignis regarding their Listening Post replacements.
Edit 4: Another tidbit on the missing factions' spy names.

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